EP 682: Let's Talk About Sex: Dr. Vagdevi's Secret to Heating Up Relationships--Whether You're a "Microwave" or an "Oven!"

In this segment, Dr. Mistry and Donna Lee are joined by longtime friend and colleague, Dr. Vagdevi Meunier of the Center for Relationships. Dr. Vagdevi is a clinical psychologist and sex therapist who explains how we form our sex habits and how couples can work together to keep the fire alive. She also encourages us to discuss these sensitive topics with our healthcare providers. Today, Dr. Vagdevi and Dr. Mistry discuss the different aspects of physical intimacy like the process of arousal, which can take some people (often women) longer to achieve than others. Fortunately, NAU Urology Specialists and Dr. Vagdevi have a wealth of resources to help heat things up in your relationship, whether you're a microwave (quick arousal and/or high desire) or an oven (slow arousal and/or low desire). If you or someone you love is struggling in or wants to improve their relationship, visit the Center for Relationships online at findmycenter.org or call (512) 465-2926 to schedule your consultation today! 

Voted top Men's Health Podcast, Sex Therapy Podcast, and Prostate Cancer Podcast by FeedSpot

Dr. Mistry is a board-certified urologist and has been treating patients in the Austin and Greater Williamson County area since he started his private practice in 2007.

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

<silence>

Speaker 2: 0:07

Welcome to the Armor Men's Health Show with Dr. Mystery and Donna Lee.

Speaker 3: 0:15

Hello and welcome to the Armor Men's Health Show. This is Dr. Mystery , your host, board certified urologist all around . Great guy here. Joined by my wonderful co-host, my partner in crime, Donna Lee. Hey,

Speaker 4: 0:26

Everybody. Thanks so much for listening to the show and sharing it with your friends.

Speaker 3: 0:30

Donna's been with us , uh, as part of our practice for many years. Seven , uh, yeah, almost a decade. Mm-Hmm .

Speaker 4: 0:37

Is

Speaker 3: 0:37

That right ? I don't think women like it when you round up that hard. No.

Speaker 4: 0:40

<laugh> just seven, which is closer to five than 10.

Speaker 3: 0:41

We closer to five. That's right. <laugh>. That's pretty advanced math for you. You're

Speaker 4: 0:45

Welcome. Public school, Lockhart , Texas.

Speaker 3: 0:47

Very good. <laugh> . This is a men's health show. We love to talk about issues that affect men between the nipples and the knees. I'm a board certified urologist. So many of the topics that we talk about here are related to the prostate, sexual functioning, kidney stones, prostate cancer, but we , uh, love to have guests on that kind of expand the kind of conversations that we have. And we have a wonderful practice that if you want to become a patient of, you are welcome to do so. Donna, tell people about our practice and how to become our patient.

Speaker 4: 1:11

You can visit our website first at armor men's health.com, and then check out our locations, round Rock, north Austin, south Austin and Dripping Springs. Our phone number is (512) 238-0762 . Is that right? That's right. And you can ask for me and one of our guests is one of our favorites, by the

Speaker 3: 1:27

Way. Yes. Today we are joined by one of our, our most favorite guests. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> really a partner of our practice for , uh, many years, maybe even over 2020 years. Dr. V Devy with the Center for Relationships, she's a sex therapist. And Dr. V Devy , why don't you tell us how , how you describe your educational background and what your job is?

Speaker 5: 1:45

So, I have a , um, doctoral degree in clinical psychology, a PS D , and I've been practicing as a psychologist since 2002. Prior to that, I was a marriage and family therapist for many, many years. I lived in Massachusetts and I worked there as a marriage and family therapist, and then decided to go back and get my doctorate. And so the Center for Relationships has been around for 10 years. This is our 10th year, and we're really excited to celebrate being still here 10 years later. Wow . Well,

Speaker 3: 2:12

Congratulations. Thank you. Even made it through covid.

Speaker 5: 2:15

We made it through Covid . Yeah. That was quite a dicey period.

Speaker 3: 2:18

I'm not sure we're gonna make it through a second Biden term, but you made it through Covid

Speaker 4: 2:22

<laugh>.

Speaker 3: 2:24

So what fascinates me about urology and medicine in general is how distant the psychological and psychotherapy aspects and the medical aspects are in the minds of the practitioners. And if you read a book from, say, 50 years ago about erectile dysfunction, it was largely believed that most of it was psychological in nature. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And now, you know , as scientists, we feel like it's all anatomic and physiological in nature, and really it's somewhere in between. Right.

Speaker 5: 2:52

What I would say is it's still very psychological, but we now have advanced technology to affect psychological conditions. That's

Speaker 3: 3:01

Right. Because it, it , it bothers you. And so, just like so many of the things that we deal with, we are so lucky to have you as a partner in our practice. Thank you. Because I think for many practitioners, if they don't know a , a psychologist or don't know who to send patients to, then you never do it because you don't, you get so stuck not even knowing where to send patients. And another thing that has really astounded me, a as I've continued to practice, is how different couples are as they age when it comes to

Speaker 5: 3:28

Sex. Oh my gosh.

Speaker 3: 3:30

And I find myself so envious of the 70-year-old guy that comes in and says that it's having sex every day. And I'm like, every day . Really?

Speaker 5: 3:38

You

Speaker 3: 3:38

Believe

Speaker 5: 3:38

It? Of course. Oh, well , he is

Speaker 4: 3:40

Married . He's married . He got a big smile on his face. His wife is 35, so , oh, there you go . That's probably why, right.

Speaker 3: 3:45

High . No, I mean, these people are 70. Well , and their wives are 70. Really ? And they still have sex every

Speaker 5: 3:51

Day . I mean, it's a huge growing problem in assisted living center ,

Speaker 4: 3:54

Pun intended . Eh , Uhhuh . <affirmative>

Speaker 5: 3:57

<laugh> . Because people in their sixties and seventies can have wild sex. Because think about it, your inhibitions are gone. Can't of dementia get pregnant. Oh , <laugh> . Well, partly dementia. But you not really. All your hangups are gone. You don't give .

Speaker 3: 4:09

So, you know, I think that this idea of sexual mismatch and what we as a society have have considered normative behavior. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> like kind of, if you think about popular culture, if you think about kind of what , how jokes are made and how sitcoms are made and how kind of what people feel, it's this belief that women's libido will naturally fade. Mm . And then you have men who have a maintained libido. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> until illness ultimately is the thing that diminishes it. And I'm not so certain that that's the healthiest way that we should portray the natural sexual kind of cycle of a couple. How do you feel about that? I

Speaker 5: 4:46

Agree. I mean, I think there is some statistics and, and there's a lot of literature that talks about the sexless marriage and you know, once you get married, you're gonna have less sex. But actually the truth is, married people have more sex than single people across a year. When you think about how many times they have opportunities for having sex, they're more likely to have sex. It's not a huge difference. So married people might have sex, I'm not gonna remember the numbers exactly, but something like 56 times a year and single people are having sex 52 times a year. Right. It's

Speaker 4: 5:18

Exhausting. I'm tired. Goodnight. Donna .

Speaker 3: 5:21

Donna's Donna stopped counting. She , she didn't even take off her her shoes to count that high. That's

Speaker 4: 5:26

Right. I'm like, no .

Speaker 5: 5:27

So , you know, people end up in a sexless marriage, but they, they have all kinds of explanations for why, and the fact is that women, in my opinion, have sex earlier in their lives for the sake of the person they're having sex with. So they're giving sex. Mm . Rather than having sex for themselves as they age, they actually are better able to have sex for themselves. They come to sex because they want something. Mm . And men, I think, are taught to have sex for themselves. They want sex, which is why a sexless marriage in a couple that's in their twenties and thirties. The guy is furious. He's like, why aren't they having more sex? You know, I want more sex. A guy in the seventies, he's grateful for any sex that comes this way.

Speaker 3: 6:10

<laugh> . I think that you're so insightful on that point, because especially when a man in his twenties or thirties who's married is comparing himself to what he perceives as the, you know, the grand old freewheeling life of single hood and comparing himself there. And then compare the 70-year-old guy, you know, and his peers, many of which are ill, or their spouses are ill, and there aren't able to. And , and so many times I see these men in their forties and fifties and they often complain about how their wife wouldn't have sex with them . And their new girlfriend or new wife is just like, you know, a rocket in bed. And I'm like, well, what could we have taught that couple mm-Hmm . In their twenties? What, who do we focus on? How do we focus on them? Because sometimes you try to fix things when it's good, not when it's terrible. That's right. Because now all this resentment kind of builds. So if you had to really just kind of have these 50-year-old divorced couples kind of go back into their twenties Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> . And if sex is a big issue later, what kind of advice do you think you would give them? Or, or you'd give a new married couple?

Speaker 5: 7:10

I have a couple of things I say. The first is, if you wanna have more sex in your marriage, in your twenties and thirties, you can either be a better husband or a better partner or a better lover. And what a lot of men do, she dropped . That's

Speaker 3: 7:22

Not a third option.

Speaker 5: 7:23

There's not a third option.

Speaker 3: 7:24

You just can't go to medical school and work really hard.

Speaker 5: 7:26

You can try then what you're doing is lying in bed and analyzing your wife's libido .

Speaker 3: 7:32

That was my plan

Speaker 5: 7:33

From a medical point of view. I mean, see how well that works for you. <laugh> ,

Speaker 3: 7:37

<laugh> .

Speaker 5: 7:38

So, you know, what happens to men in their twenties and thirties is that the woman was giving them a lot of sex. Mm-Hmm . When they were dating. I mean, they were hot little numbers. And so they're like, oh my God. Like I'm gonna get married to this girl, and then she's gonna gimme a lot of sex just the way she did. Well, guess what? She was giving him a lot of sex to catch him . Oh . And then she's caught him and she's got him beep is alright . So she's saying, why do I have to give you sex now? Or especially the kids come and she's like, stay away from me. I'm exhaust. I have two other people sucking on me all the time. <laugh> . Oh , right now . There you go.

Speaker 3: 8:11

It's like, it's like, you know my moves,

Speaker 5: 8:13

You know , so stay away from me. And the guy says, well, you're not giving me sex. You were giving me sex before. We were having sex three times a week before. And that's when you have to ask yourself, are you, do you need to be a better husband or a better lover? And a lot of men focus on the better lover part, you know, but they also focus on how can I be a better lover once we're in the bedroom? How can I do better arousal and better orgasm? How can I please you baby? How can I get you off? What they're forgetting is desire. And for women, desire is responsive. Women are like ovens. You've gotta warm, you gotta preheat that oven. You gotta warm 'em up . Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> men are like microwaves. I'm ready to make a cup of coffee. You hit the button, boom. We're there.

Speaker 3: 8:56

I love this. Wow. True . So you're saying that if I leave my socks on the floor Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> and I don't help with the dishes. That's right. And I drink a beer when I come home and just watch television. That's right. That, that is not gonna work on the warming of the oven. Correct.

Speaker 5: 9:08

That's correct.

Speaker 3: 9:10

Hum.

Speaker 5: 9:10

Women's porn, I think.

Speaker 3: 9:12

Right.

Speaker 5: 9:12

There's a book called Women's Porn and every page has a picture. Right. The first page has a picture of a guy wearing an April and coming outta the kitchen saying, I just had to make these cookies. They smell so good.

Speaker 4: 9:24

Oh , what a great book.

Speaker 5: 9:25

I know. And so love it . Women's desire is responsive. A woman who doesn't feel like having sex will feel like having sex if she's romanced a little

Speaker 4: 9:37

Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> .

Speaker 5: 9:38

And when she feels like it, she'll do a lot more in the bedroom.

Speaker 4: 9:42

That's right, Michael. Sorry.

Speaker 3: 9:44

Oh , oh boy. It , it may not be worth , you're

Speaker 5: 9:46

Numbered here . Yeah .

Speaker 3: 9:47

I , that's tricky . Well, that is , uh, you know, an excellent piece of insight. And I think when we come back, we're gonna talk about how couples can have more sex kind of as they, as they go through, through their , uh, relationship kind of arc. But, but I guess advice would be strong to say that if you want to be one of these couples that's in their seventies and is in love with your wife and is having sex all the time, the kind of couples that I envy every time I see them in the clinic, you really have to put the work in early in the relationship and , uh, and not expect , uh, her to be a microwave too.

Speaker 5: 10:20

And, you know, if you're in your seventies, you can't get it up, keep it up and bring it back up as fast as you used to. So you've gotta resort to other techniques. So that's what, that's the secret. These 70-year-old guys know. They know they have to start. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> a week early.

Speaker 3: 10:36

A week Early,

Speaker 4: 10:37

Early warming up. Oh

Speaker 3: 10:38

My God . Dr. vda , how do people become patients of yours? What's your phone number? Uh,

Speaker 5: 10:42

(512) 465-2926. Where the Center for Relationships, or you can go to find my center.org .

Speaker 3: 10:48

We are once again joined by Dr. V Devy with the Center for Relationships. You and I talk a lot about just kind of sexual chemistry, the idea of how do you maintain a positive sexual life. And I think that we would both agree that for many couples maintaining a healthy sexual life is very important to the stability of that couple. Right, exactly. When we talk about what causes couples to break up, couples often fight about money, but I feel like many conversations would stop if they were just like very much enjoying themselves in the bedroom

Speaker 5: 11:18

Or if they were paying their bills naked. That's right.

Speaker 4: 11:20

<laugh> ,

Speaker 5: 11:21

I sometimes prescribe that

Speaker 4: 11:23

<laugh> . Really?

Speaker 5: 11:24

Yes. Oh,

Speaker 4: 11:25

That's cute.

Speaker 3: 11:25

Yeah. How, how mad can you get? That's right.

Speaker 4: 11:28

<laugh>. That's funny. Dr . Mystery prescribes flashlights. So between the two of y'all , we got some happy patients happening. Flashlights.

Speaker 5: 11:34

Okay . Flashlights. Oh, flashlights. Got

Speaker 3: 11:36

It. Yeah . Flashlights as a , as like kind of a prosthetic vagina so that men that have difficulty can , uh, can, can practice without the stress. Mm-Hmm . So when it comes to a couple that may not be having as much sex as one does or the other, how does that manifest itself in, in terms of the relationship? And what kinds of things do you prescribe to have , have couples kind of improve that aspect of their relationship?

Speaker 5: 12:00

So we were talking about, can you be a better partner? Do you need to be a better partner or a better lover? Right. Right. And so I think the first place to look is , are you a better partner? Because your partner, if you , you're heterosexual couple and your partner's a wife, a woman, chances are that if she, if you are not helping with the dishes, if you're not helping with the babies and you're leaving your stuff lying around and the bed's a mess and you didn't take a shower and you kinda , you know, smell funky <laugh> , and then you're saying, come over your baby, let's have some, you know, let's have some sex. She's like, mm . No. On the other hand, you know, let's say you're a really romantic person and you're great at bringing flowers, helping out around the house, and you are still not having enough sex. Then I would start to look at, okay, what are you doing in bed? What are you doing that maybe we need to help you develop some new techniques? Because here's the other truth about sex. In couples, heterosexual couples, we come to sex with, let's say a list of a hundred things we're willing to do in bed. Okay. A hundred .

Speaker 3: 12:57

A hundred. Dang. Wow. I was thinking like five . Most of us. Oh my lord. No,

Speaker 5: 13:01

No, no. We end up at

Speaker 3: 13:01

Five . I just have the one move.

Speaker 5: 13:04

Let's say we, we have, we start with a generous list of a hundred Gotcha .

Speaker 3: 13:09

<laugh> . Okay .

Speaker 5: 13:09

And then we meet somebody, we fall in love, we get married, and we start having sex with this person on a regular basis. And we realize, oh, he doesn't wanna do this, so let me cross that off. She doesn't want to do that. So let me cross that off. She's not comfortable with this, he's not comfortable with this. And we end up with a list of five to 10 things. So now imagine doing the same five to 10 things 500 times in a year. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> , you're not gonna enjoy it. It's inevitable that it's gonna become boring, mundane, stale. And so what couples do is they try to have the same five moves over and over and over again. And then they're surprised that their partner doesn't wanna have sex with them . Hmm . And so what I say is, in the beginning of the relationship, we have sex and we reduce anxiety by the moves that we make. We wanna make both partners feel safe. This is what we all do. Right? I want my partner to feel comfortable, safe. I want my partner to experience sex without anxiety. But once you get to that stale point , and a lot of couples do, you have to now learn to tolerate anxiety in order to have better sex. Which means you have to begin to push the envelope a little bit. You have to begin to think about creative things that you do. Why do you always have sex in a bed? Why do you always have sex in the missionary position? Have you tried different positions? Have you tried marital aids? Like toys and vibrators? Have you tried having sex in a bathtub, in a shower in the backyard at night when your neighbors aren't watching? Uh , you know, when you begin to try something new after you've been together for 10 years, 15 years, then you might increase a little bit of anxiety. But that anxiety comes with energy, it comes with a little adrenaline. It comes with a little bit of laughter. Goofiness. Let's imagine I sell , I tell guys, right, you wanna bring more energy into the bedroom? Go buy yourself sexy clothes. Don't go buy your wife sexy clothes. Uh oh . Partly because you don't know what she likes <laugh>

Speaker 6: 15:13

Or what size she wears.

Speaker 3: 15:14

That's

Speaker 5: 15:15

Right. Or even what size she wear. And partly she didn't choose it. She's not asking for it. So what if she shows up in the bedroom and you're standing there in your Tarzan outfit with that loin cloth and you're going Yeah . And she's gonna bust out laughing. Right . That's the noise I make when I have sex. Yeah . <laugh> , she's gonna start

Speaker 3: 15:36

Giggling

Speaker 5: 15:36

<laugh> . And now you've released the tension. Now you've created a little moment of humor or fun. Now you can be playful with it. Right. So I want people, when they wanna become better lovers, to really think creatively and to think about unusual ways in which they can increase the energy, even if they're increasing the anxiety a little bit. I have people play with scents and oils and, you know, different kinds of edibles. You can buy edible underwear. It doesn't taste that great <laugh> , but it's kind of fun to try.

Speaker 3: 16:11

Allegedly. Allegedly,

Speaker 5: 16:13

Allegedly. Oh , I can tell you, it doesn't taste that great.

Speaker 3: 16:16

<laugh>, <laugh> . You know, you've, you've , you've mentioned something that's very interesting and that's this topic of approachability. And I think that many times couples get into this idea of, you don't approach me for sex. Yes. I always have to approach you for sex. That's right. But you've really introduced another concept, which is this, I'm opening myself up to accessibility for sex, which is different. That's right. And, and it's a , it's such a powerful message because in this binary system of, it's either you starting or I'm starting, it's, I'm making myself open to being, being approached in a way that I'm just like showing you that I'm, that I'm approachable.

Speaker 5: 16:52

And there's inevitably, when we have that stale point in, in the relationship where there's not enough sex happening, there's a high desire partner and a low desire partner. The high desire partner is the one that's always initiating. And they're always saying, how come? How come? How come? But you know, what they're doing is they're putting pressure on the low desire partner to have sex when they don't want to. So the low desire partner has a dilemma, do I hurt your feelings and say, no, I'm not gonna have sex with you. Or do I give in and have grudge sex and make up sex and mercy sex or

Speaker 3: 17:20

Start arguments in which, or start arguments. And I think that happens not infrequently, you know? That's right. Know small things, you know, get exaggerated to kind of avoid this sense of guilt and disappointment that you have in the bedroom.

Speaker 5: 17:30

That's right. So the high desire partner really needs to sort of back off a little, bring yourself to sex. Don't work so hard to try and change the other person's libido or interest in sex. Bring yourself to sex in a way that says, I'm desirable and I find you desirable. And that doesn't just start when we hit the sheets. It starts a day earlier, A week earlier. I find you desirable when you're bending over, taking the clothes out of the washing machine. If

Speaker 3: 17:59

You put the clothes in the washing machine, is that where they go? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>

Speaker 4: 18:02

<laugh> .

Speaker 3: 18:03

Yeah. I probably have a lot of work to do when it comes to helping around the house. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative>

Speaker 4: 18:06

Maybe. So after six kids,

Speaker 3: 18:09

I thought we had a laundry fairy that just takes care of that stuff. <laugh> . So when it comes to finding ways to expand your sexual experience and to that end become a , a better lover, you mentioned this idea of an , an example of kind of, you know, some type of role player costume therapy. What do you think are some other kind of low hanging fruits that couples can start adding? You? Me , you mentioned the use of edibles, you mentioned the use of oils and things of that nature. What do you think the success rate is and what makes things successful? When , when people are trying

Speaker 5: 18:37

This, you know, we're talking as if we're just addressing one person. And sex is usually a two person problem. It could be more than a two person problem. Yeah . It's

Speaker 3: 18:46

A three person problem. You're lucky it

Speaker 5: 18:47

Could be. Yeah. Um ,

Speaker 3: 18:48

Maybe on your birthday,

Speaker 4: 18:50

Not the throuple

Speaker 5: 18:51

<laugh> . No. So if it's a two person problem, you cannot do something that the other person isn't also enjoying. And so what a lot of times happens when somebody wants to try something new is that they go out, they go to that triple X store and they go buy a bunch of things and they come back and they're like, Hey, I got handcuffs, baby <laugh> . And the fact is, you never talked to your partner and said, would you like to wear handcuffs? Would that feel comfortable to you? Because the other person might , might like you better not come anywhere near me with those handcuffs. Right. <laugh> . And so what we wanna do is create a mutual understanding, a mutual agreement, and then take a basket metaphorically speaking, and put everything in that basket that has to do with physical affection. Mm-Hmm . And then work with each other to figure out how you can have 50 or 60% of the time all the stuff in that basket and some of the time the good stuff, the intercourse, you know, extra bonus sexual acts that you might do in the bedroom. And when you do that, what you then find out is that, for example, kissing, you know, there's used to, there used to be a show on different ways of kissing. There's like 20 different ways to kiss, go read up about it. Right. Why do you always go in for the tilted head look right with your eyes closed. That's the only one way of kissing. So go research 20 different ways to kiss, go research different kinds of hugs, and now all of a sudden that's the low hanging fruit. You're doing that in the living room, you're doing that in the kitchen, you're doing it in the laundry room, doctor mystery. And you're finding that your partner is so much more responsive because that's easy to say yes to a hug or a kiss. It's easy to say yes to holding hands and cuddling on the couch. You say, okay, come. Let's go to the bedroom and let's do this whole mambo jumbo that takes, you know, 15, 20 minutes. Now your partner's saying 20

Speaker 3: 20:52

Minutes. Mm . What am I a robot? Sex robot people . Dr. Bag . Debbie , you have given us such incredible information. Love having you on the show so much. Tell us about your center again and how do people get ahold of you?

Speaker 5: 21:04

So I have the Center for Relationships in Austin, Texas. And you can reach us by phone at (512) 465-2926 . Or you can go to our website, find my center.org .

Speaker 2: 21:16

The Armor Men's Health Show is brought to you by NAU Urology Specialist. For questions or to schedule an appointment, please call 5 1 2 2 3 8 0 7 6 2 or online at armor men's health.com.